These five distinctive beliefs separate the true Baptists from other groups who have mistakenly taken the name Baptist and all non New Testament churches such as the Protestants. It seemed that if some people (which were severalactually almost all with very few exceptions) were given any place of position within the church, they responded with a sole purpose for having the pastor pleased with them, and definitely staying in his face about ideas which truly seemed more personal preference than such ideas of benefit. Like I alluded to earlier most folks dont study their bible, and many do so with preconceived ideas, please have a look at your churchs stance on these issues according to scripture and see if Thomas Campbell is right about these things. Greetings, (Quote from Dr. J. M. Carrolls booklet The Trail of Blood) These historians, in an attempt to show an unbroken line of Baptists in history, have embraced groups which were clearly not doctrinal sound. The Independent Baptist believes that to join with churches who teach and practice false doctrine is condone and even show approval of Biblical error and that all doctrinal error is sin. I have transferred schools and since then Ive had to find a new church. In 1631, he arrived in Boston. Unfortunately I am relatively new to this denomination; I do not know how much authority they have over my individual church. @Saved By Grace They do not find support in the Bible for such a requirement. The cause is clear. I think I already addressed that point. You can tell when people actually study their Bibles. You cannot read psalms w/out seeing those raised hands. It is an important part of the church. A storm of persecution broke out because these Baptist preached what the Puritans called damnable errors. Most of the members of the church were fined or imprisoned or both, at one time or another. It is my conviction that it is not possible to trace an unbroken line of Baptist churches from Christ until today. He is only one of many such godly men who would not compromise the truth. But when we begin to paint entire church groups with the broad brush of generalities then OUR motives become suspect. In only a few years however, the church had lost all but ten members to the Mennonites and other groups in Holland. You seems to be as blind as the Pharisees. G.L. Some Baptist historians, have made attempts at doing this, but in many cases refer to groups as early Baptists who did not in fact hold to pure Baptist beliefs as held today. Grace Independent Chapel Size: Medium church 126 Airport Rd Shamokin, PA. Loving Fellowship Baptist Church . Some have pointed to the Anabaptists as the examples of early Baptist churches. Historically, Baptists were never a part of the Roman Catholic Church or the Protestant Reformation and therefore can not be correctly called protestors or Protestants. It may be this passage of Scripture Paul had in mind when he said I am innocent of the blood of all men because he had taught them the whole counsel of Gods word. These first Baptist churches formed in England were Armenian in theology, which taught that all men could be saved. We believe that Jesus is the only one who can reconcile us to God. Now I am in full agreement with you that we should support our places of worship with our monetary gifts, but a mandatory tithe for new testament christians? We use our monetary resources alone. There is not one Protestant church that is doctrinally pure following the example and polity of the New Testament. Blessings. There are plenty of church members that disagree with the preacher on many topics. In Europe, Protestant churches are state churches and supported to some degree by government imposed taxes. This free resource is here to help you find an independent Baptist church in your area or while traveling. These true Baptists added the adjectives Fundamental and Independent to their name in order that they not be identified with the false practices and teaching of the doctrinally unsound churches using the Baptist name. I thought that this was the passage you were referring to. 14) before the Lord Jesus announced the coming establishment of the ekklesia. (Matt 16:18). It is my conviction that this is contrary to the very foundation of what is a true New Testament church. Lynne While I agree with most of your comment, I would be very interested in finding where Jesus teaches about tithing in the bible. We hope it will be a blessing to you. Thus, the name independent means that the church patterns itself after the New Testament example and stands alone under the authority of the Bible. It is also true that we have a responsibility to tell people about the gospel message, especially those who we have contact with. His crime was that rejected the unbiblical ideas of a state church, infant baptism and other false teachings of the Puritans. Gossips offer plausible deniability. But if your axe is based on tithing being practiced & encouraged (no one mandates & makes me give)then you have a axe with much of Christendom. Or, I hope that youve beaten your children today, 13Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. 5:23) and the Chief Shepherd )1 Peter 5:4). We are friendly Fundamental Independent Baptists, k ind-of like the church your grandparents might have once attended. However, tithing has nothing to do with your Salvation If you dont already, try it some time. Also, those who God draws will come to Christ and believe in Him. We never shun people who leave the church. Our Pastor teaches that Baptism does not save us and is no a requirement of salvation. Thomas Gould, died in 1675 an untimely death, partially because of his having his health broken by several long imprisonments. Examine any church in light of these five distinctive it will be shown if they are true historical Baptist congregation which is synonymous with what is a true biblical New Testament church. It was not founded because a line of Baptist churches down through history. Jesus quoted the old testament. This is known as the Argumentum ad populum fallacy. Further, he ignored the reading of the order of service and simply preached the Scriptures. The point is the name Baptist in the beginning was used to designate a true New Testament assembly that was biblically sound. 521 13 AVE W. WILLISTON ND 58801 (701) 572-7839 CH. Ministry experience: Over thirty years of experience in Independent, Fundamental Baptist Churches, serving in . I appreciate your response, I am especially glad to hear that your mother has returned to the church. Many Anabaptists churches were strong New Testament churches believing and following the Word of God. I hope you can forgive me for perpetuating those stumbling blocks. I believe it is almost impossible to grow to a complete relationship with God without knowing his nature. I respect a church that weloclmes being a part of my tithe but does not mandate that I do. Although they were a great deal more pious than the Church of England they still practiced most of its beliefs including infant baptism. The first Baptist church on American soil was a direct result of the Puritan persecution of true New Testament believers. He was much displeased with the Puritan theocracy. Anyhow he screamed through most of it (funny I never see Jesus screaming at folks, particularly His followers) told some fantastic tales, not saying he was lying, but, well you know what I mean. Im not sure how they upkept thier Synagogue & relate dcostbut if Im not mistaken I learned during a conference that they actually gave more than our equivalent of a tenth in regards to thier goods/wealth (like mince, spices, etc)and perhaps separate monetray covered that cost or these items were bartered/traded to pay bills. 3:2) for Jews who were preparing for coming Messiah and Kingdom God had promised them. Its not that I wouldnt want to give to bothbut if I only have 30 dollars; Id rather give to feed, clothe, house & most of all share the Gospel vs just feed, clothe & housed. There's only one way to heaven, and that . Dont misunderstand, I believe we are to preach and testify, but, from what I understand no ones blood will be on my hands if they wind up in Hell. It is the Lords tithe, and God chose to use his tithe in the OT and in the NT for the maintenance of the priesthood (those that are called out for the specific service of God in ministering to the Lord and to the people on behalf of the Lord) and the maintenance of the house of God a place wherein Gods people assemble for the purpose of worship (honoring) the Lord. Hope this clears up some confusion. But God knows his heart. You will find, to the left, a tags cloud as well as a category drop down menu. He began by baptizing himself and then baptizing ten other members. I think Calvary Chapel churches are great. adhering to correct doctrine and proper practices should be the focus in our lives. So I still think Just about every Church has Strict dress Standards whether they know it or not. They tried to establish that according to history, Baptists have an unbroken line of churches since Christ. Pastors tiptoe around specific sins so not to offend. The crucial point is not that they called themselves Baptists, but they followed the Bible as their sole authority for faith and practice. And only imagination could describe what his mind and soul was experiencing. Fundamental Independent Baptists church will remain separate from these churches as well as other Baptists groups who participate with the unscriptural churches. That coupled with your seeming lack of spiritual maturity will make for an interesting combination. To only teach from the New Testament and ignoring the old is not using the whole Word of God. Places Near Chandler, AZ with Independent Fundamental Baptist Churches. It certainly isnt about our adherance to a set of manmade rules. I posted my last post like 3 days ago and it just came up recently. First I would disagree that The Church of Christ teaches first century, new testament doctrine. He was talking about ceremonial law not moral law I think you are confusing those two. You should tithe, but if you dont thats between you and the Lord. Through preaching the New Testament, the Gospel went forth in power and the Baptist movement grew rapidly. 53, Cornhill, 1813, Fundamental Baptist CD ROM Library, 1701 Harns Rd. It is important to note too, that each Believer must be passionate about winning lost folks to Christ. But the police proceeded to arrest them and throw them in jail. He did not belong to, nor was part of the any ekklesia. Yes he baptized, but His baptism was the baptism of repentance (Matt. One young lady began attending a non IFB Baptist church. I only know of two. The study of Gods word deserves more time than this life holds. These churches patterned themselves strictly after the New Testament example, and this made them valid churches approved of God. These churches appear to have been baptistic and remained sound until Austin, the Catholic monk brought Catholicism to the Isles in 597 AD. Also in regards to the restcommon sense is you give according to how you deal with your values ,etc. Offers of religious liberty drew many Baptists to settle in New Jersey. I know that as I give more to the Lord Im blessed more & even if not I want to. VICTORY BAPTIST CHURCH. I would either be kicked out or asked to put on something to wear. Some of these churches have gone so far to even deny the fundamental teachings of the Bible, such as the deity of Christ, the virgin birth and salvation by the Grace of God, through faith. 5. In 1638, he landed in Boston and settled for a short time in Piscataway (now Dover) in New Hampshire. In 1638, Williams made his way to what is now Providence, Rhode Island, and there bought some land from the Indians. He is not nearly as fundy as where I left from, and is learning. This was the birth of Protestant churches. Please note that this presented no problem for this first Baptist church in America. The Baptist church that I attend used the entire Bible, all 66 books. Also, I support tithing personally. From a Calvary Chapel web site: We do not maintain church membership; You must be born again spiritually to join the church of Jesus Christ, therefore membership is in the whole church of Jesus, not just our local fellowship., This practice stems from their Moses model (top down) style of church leadership. And that homeless man that shows up every few weeks may have truly accepted Christ in the past, but events of life led to his downward spiral. It is well also to note that these five distinctives are traits also of the true New Testament church! I have to chuckle every time I think about a comment our former IFB pastor said about lifestyle evangelism as he puts it. Calvary Chapels do not believe that baptism is necessary for membership in a local assembly. Giving ten percent to God is a good thing, I agree with that. The Road to Emmaus Baptist Church is an independent Baptist church in Monaca, Pennsylvania. Independent Fundamental Churches of America, https://www.britannica.com/topic/Independent-Fundamental-Churches-of-America, Official Site of IFCA International, Grandville, Michigan, United States. The business is listed under baptist church category. The point is Jesus not only did not condem it but He said it should not have been left undone. John 10:10, Many Baptist churches have Trustees, but their position was established in order to have legal signatories to sign legal documents of the church. 5) shun folks that have left the church Sir, Independent Baptist Directory of Churches. However, bottom lineJesus never shared but truth to all incl Phairsees so if His position on tithing was as being not to be left undonethan I believe it stands as something that is good to do, pleasing to God. The way a Christian dresses should be governed by their love for Christ and other people, not by rules imposed by a religious authority to make one look righteous. I am divorced, and I always sit in the front rows. The Independent Baptist believes that to join with churches who teach and practice false doctrine is condone and even show approval of Biblical error and that all doctrinal error is sin. Im not saying thats the case only sharing my experience & by Gods grace I have done so I believe. A response to Pastor James Meltons Questions for the KJV Critics, 69. Christians under the grace economy give out thankfulness to God for what Christ has done for them, without any compulsion. My question would be: When has anyone ever given 10% to GOD. It more often then none goes to the support building, supplies, salaries of a ministry under the leadership of usually a man., Excellent book on the subject is Should the Church Teach Tithing by Russell Kelly, http://www.truthforfree.com/files/PDF/REK-Tithing3.pdf. The crime of these men was that they believed the Bible was Gods Truth, and rejected dictates of false churches and men. 2 talking about this. We are not under law. He states there were Baptists in England 1400 AD. True New Testament Christians have always rejected such unbiblical ideas. What does the Bible say about the way Christians should dress? No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day., Based on the Word of God, I submit to you that Gods plan will not be thwarted because I fail to do something. The first Baptist church in New York was started by William Wichendon, in 1656. Thank you for your help! About this time the Puritans were also becoming strong in England. God said He would preserve His church and that task was not left in the hands of fallible men or groups. We had an elderly woman that lifted her hands and shouted to the Lord the entire service before she went home to be with Him. There were other factors, such as the show business aspects of the preaching as well as the powertripping that actually planted my difficulties to begin with. I dont see a thing wrong with it; He didnt make us to be wooden. 2) tell you what kind of music to listen to We are a local New Testament church reaching the Phoenix area with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I would directly compare doctrine and practices using scripture to make the assertion which is correct. This would explain the abrasiveness with which you deliver what should be the most joyous information of the Gospel of Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior. Although, they were not as corrupt as the Church of England, they still practiced a strict ritual of church service, a state church, and among other things, infant baptism. They were just outside of the resort area on the beach at night and were stopped by a group of policemen. Tithing was never required for anyone except Jews who lived under the Mosaic economy. IFB churches are not the problem. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Nope, dont see that. 3) tell you what to wear (John the Baptist probably wouldnt be allowed in most IFB churches 14Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. Proverbs 23:13-14 see how silly that way of using scripture is? Even some TV evangelists have referred to themselves as being fundamentalist. Christ suffered and gave His life to save you from hell, it's time you start going to a church that actually believes that. http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/ This site is run by a Jack Hyles follower. I admitted, in my comment, that I was somewhat caustic in my writing (I could definitely get better in that department) but I re-read what I wrote and didnt think it was horrible. I love your statement above about The Grace economy I think Im going to have to borrow it. I liken this to attending a Bible study without your Bible. Its derived from two possible origins: 1. I hope you come back to comment more. The Pharisees tithed on all their belongings. In 1678, shortly after the church had erected a new building, the Puritan controlled government nailed its doors shut and forbade anyone under penalty of the law to enter or worship there. If you want to be under law, you need to keep all 613 commandments of the Mosaic law. 6.) Theres no recourse. It seems like in the church I personally attended, that the powertrip I saw actually stemmed from a total lack of outside maturity from the church in general. Google Maps shows it located in a modest strip mall in Jacksonville, Florida, alongside an arcade, a . He said from the pulpit, No one ever asked me if I was a Christian while out in public! Im thinking thats not a good thing. I think most people would agree with me on this. Baptism is an outward sign of an inward decision and has nothing to do with your salvation. Those good Church of Christ folks, I have a few friends in that faith, good folks, but as youve so clearly pointed out, completley out in left field as it relates to musical instruments in the church. I find it difficult sometimes to keep Gods sovereignty and my responsibility in balance. Christians should be recognized by their love for Jesus and one another. Praise the Lord she started going back to church recently. In answer your assumptions about me. Examples: Billy Graham, Promise Keepers. Since she has a place of her own now I dont see her as much as I like but I wont shun her because she left. My best friend who professes to be Christian (she attends a Southern Baptist church), is dating an evolutionist and she tells me that religion is not high up on her criteria for dating and marriage yet she will call me, upset, and say that her boyfriend is hasseling her about her faith. Enter city. Im a Southern Baptist and celebrate Jesus and His grace! Ok so he starts attempting to pull the heart strings about loved ones that you are around daily, and if you are telling them enough about getting saved etc. Mostly because that had nothing to do with my question. God cares not for your works, your baptism, your church attendance, or your social status. God bless. I immediatley thought that my God must be alot bigger than his. Biblical Mandate for BaptistDeception.com. Im sorry Brother Irv, but you are wrong. The New Testament teaches the absolute autonomy of each local church who is to govern itself as the Word of God instructs free from outside authority and control. @greg It was my burden since then that it seems Jesus wants to gather His flock, but the Wolf in Sheeps Clothing really scattered the sheep resulting to lots of denominations. Tithing preceded the OT Law. Unfortunately, serious Bible study is in short supply these days. Lynne, The issue that concerns me about dress standards is that the position a church takes is a Biblical one. Jesus statement to the Pharisees about tithing would not apply to you because you are not a Jew under the Mosaic Law. Independent Church. It is difficult to document these congregations because they were rarely in the spot light of history. The Independent Fundamental Baptist church could be defined as a cult given the multiple definitions of a cult and the characteristics of the IFB. It was not the man who founded the church that was important, but the New Testament principles on which he founded this church. 5.) My statement about folks not studying and just sitting in the pew and listening to the MOG, was not addressed to you specifically, but to folks generally, you wouldnt agree to this? I am personally done with religion If asked what religion I am, my standard answer is christian even though I am still attending a little Baptist Church. In 1539 thirty one more who had fled to Holland were apprehended and martyred there. Even though they may have been uner the law as you sayJesus did not cease sharing the fuller truth of the Law & stretching us to grasp the fullfillment of the Law. The Bible and only the Bible reveals to men how to have their sins forgiven and have everlasting life and heaven. We can clearly see the Spirit of God in your gracious post. Do you think you can bring others to Christ in this manner? They will not participate, on a church basis, or any outside function with churches which do not also strictly base their faith and practice on the New Testament. A church which cannot answer yes to all of these questions cannot historically call itself a Baptist church. In what areas? Being to poor to pay the fines he was banished from the colony. She is not shunned. Select worship style. Robert Fry Pastor of Bible Baptist Church in Plattsburgh, NY Deception, 75. Now when the head of a church & all dem that fall in line must appply apsotast (like openly Gay Pastor, etc) than you should have some of them on here big. This site and others consistently speak about folks that follow and uplift man, in my faith I want only to lift up the God-man!! @greg Thats why Paul advocated free will offerings (see 2 Corinthians 9). It is not historically correct to identify Baptists as Catholic protestors who left the Roman church. So, obligating someone to feel like they mustis not I believe what God wants. Bob Just want to commend you on how clearly you are able to elucidate on a given topic, Im envious. Something else to note here, what were they tithing? The first is the United Church of Christ and secondly is the one I refer to, Independent Churches of Christ. clarity/dont want to lieas far as experiences at churche sin regards to Tithing: I practiced tithing at former Non-Den churchPAastor explained tithing, giving & offering I think & wa sclear not mandatory but reallywhy tenth onlyactual giving by restricting only seemed to be what I learned from thatits all His. For IFB churches, most use this as a baseline in their giving with II Cor 9:7 for guiding in the heart of giving. In 1688 a Baptist church was organized at Pennepeck, Pennsylvania with twelve members. (Hebrews 4:15-16 and 10:19-22) Despite his views he was made the pastor of the church in Salem. Introducing the Abusive Randy Ireland, You Might Be an Independent Fundamental Baptist if, Broad Stroking and Sweeping Generalizations Fallacy, Harold Camping Fails to Predict the Rapture, The 10 Commandments of the Independent Fundamental Baptists, 92-Year-Old Woman Kicked Out of Church for not Tithing, Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) De. Yes we only use KJV (I perosnally like it better myself because I like the Shakespeareanesque vernacular versus modern but thats a personal choice). 3. In 1645, he formed a Baptist church in London. Not because of how we dress but by who we are. Other Anabaptists groups were in gross error and corrupted. In Amsterdam, he with Thomas Helwys and thirty six others formed the first Baptist church of English people known to have stood for baptism of believers only. I already estb basis of why Tithing I believe is good (must read all post under Lynne). Does Westboro Baptist in Topeka, Kansas (Thank God for 9/11, God hates fags, Thank God for dead soldiers) fall under the IFB category? HWY 3 NW. Of all my favorite things to do now that Im out of that situation, is raise my hands and praise my precious Saviour when He stirs my heart. I dont believe it is a Law that one has to tithe. I do dislike what seems to be human effort in trying to do what only the Spirit of God can do through a clear presentation of the word of God. You want to point out that you think that I have anger issues, but have a look at your comments, I dont see awhole lot of love dripping off of your comments either. However, history does not record even one Anabaptist group or church becoming or founding a Baptist church. Independent Fundamental Baptist Church Hope is a Baptist church located at Chapala lago, Patzcuaro Ejido Xochimilco, Patzcuaro Ejido Xochimilco, Zona Urbana Xochimilco, Mexicali, Baja California 21355, MX. He returned to Salem where he was summoned before the court in Boston because of his outspoken beliefs and was banished from the colony. Back in England these men, on returning to England, formed the first recorded Baptist church on English soil. with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. Independent fundamental Baptist churches include those loosely affiliated in fellowshipsmore common in the Northas well as those whose pastors may share particular networksmore common in. As a matter of fact, you cannot be a member of a Calvary Chapel. It is surely an affront to any historically informed Baptist identify him by the name of a group that has so hated and persecuted them down throughout history. The Puritans were in control of the colonies and in fact had set up a theocracy in which the Puritan church governed both secular and religious affairs. Some years ago when I was attempting to find another church for my family to attend so as to escape a spiritually abusive IFB, I found myself at a Church of Christ that had split from the large COC in town. They are worlds apart. It is believed that God meant what he said in Revelation 22:18, the Scriptures were not to added to or taken from. Today the name Baptist is used by many churches who are not truly following the teachings of the New Testament. These people give Jesus and Christianity overall a black eye every time they go to a military funeral or any other event they have absolutely no respect for. We give out of thankfulness to God for what Christ has accomplished as we are led by the Spirit. You can tell right away that something doesnt sound right. BTW, my Church of Christ neighbor and I were good friends, and looked out for each other. It sounds like you believe that we are not required to tithe, but somehow we are better off if we do? Shall we simply eradicate all sermons about sin? Believers are not set apart by the clothing they wear so much as their conduct, character, and lifestyle. (David Benedict, A General History of the Baptist Denomination in American, and Other Parts of the World, London: Lincoln and Edmands, Nr. Baptists, basing their beliefs solely on the Bible, and in particularly the New Testament, have never held to these teachings and see them as heresy. But anyway he says that if those folks go to Hell, that their blood would be on your hands. No tithing is not mandated, no good work is..just as no good work can save us. Also, when only what we do for Christ will last would include contributing to kingdom endeavors. Protestants for centuries saw the Baptists as their enemies and murdered them by the thousands in the name of Protestantism. (II Peter 1:20) Baptist believe you do not have to be a Baptist in order to be saved and have eternal life, but a person must believe the Gospel as revealed in the New Testament. Its ugly and frustrating. I know of no place in scripture where a tithe is ever money! The purpose of the Law being fullfilled we should do all good works in Christ for we are saved to do good works. Ok, so Im pretty sure you are referring to the Church of Christ that was founded by good ol Thomas Campbell (1763-1854) He was a fine Scottish Presbyterian who left Ireland to come to western PA. in 1807.

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